One of America's finest AOR-acts, Dakota, released their new CD "The Last Standing Man" (their second release on Escape Music), last year. Another milestone during a rather lengthy career of Dakota, and a new fresh start for Jerry G. Hludzik who now definitely shows that there indeed is "life after Kelly" (as if there ever were any doubts). Here follows an interview with Jerry and Rick (Manwiller) of Dakota about their new masterpiece.

Jerry: "It has been kinda neat this time, cause the last time around it was just something that came out of nowhere and we got a lot of good press on something I never expected. As I hadn't been in that frame of mind for 12 years, it took time to get back in that groove. What I had to try to do was to make another Dakota record that everybody in Europe wanted because if I strayed too far off the beaten track, I didn't know if I would be stepping out of line too much. In retrospect I don't have any regrets about the record but I think for the next record I'm going to make more liberty as far as taking it wherever it goes.
I think we made a good record but we made a safe record. But I know now what I have to alter for the next one. I want it harder, I want it more up-tempo but I still want it to be Dakota. Cross over with all those aspects of it."

-Is all the material entirely new or is there anything that origins from way back?
Jerry: "The only song that is "old" is a song that I wrote 17 years ago and I always wanted to record it, and that is "Hot Nights" (once recorded by American act Magnum. Not the U.K act).

-How long did you work with this album?
Jerry: "We started in February 1997 and we finished in late July/early August, only because..uhh, and here's another thing. On February 21nd, two weeks into the record. I got sick really bad, because we had a really bad winter. It was cold and a lot of snow. We had new songs that I didn't even sing a note on until July. My voice was gone, gone, gone.... I sang the songs on the record only because it was time and we didn't have any more time in July. All through that I must have gone to three or four doctors thinking I had throat problems. Luckily it wasn't that, it was just bronchitis. I lost the bottom of my range, the depth was gone. I tried to sing but it didn't sound like me. So I just had to wait it out. And when that happened I started to get stressed out, as you know, the record wouldn't have been completed without the vocals (laughs). Looking back I am still pleased with the result.
A lot of the songs we're structured in a rehearsal form, but the final vocals never really happened until July. All of the early Dakota records were very high budget records and this one here, not to say that you can't make a good record with low dollars, but we didn't have a lot of money to play with and expenses are high as far as studiocosts and everything but came out on the other side in a positive way."

-Any particular favorite tracks on the album?
Rick: "I particularly love "Somebody's Hero", the song Jerry wrote with Dee Allen. Dee is a big Todd Rundgren fan, and the original versionwas very much in that vein. When Jerry and I sat down to re-vamp it for Dakota, it took on a Mr.Mister approach, and I think the resulting arrangement works magically with the song. Also, the jazz vamp at the end of "Only Game In Town", where we stretch out a bit, and I do my Bruce Hornsby imitation. I've noticed people either love that or hate it. Also the title track, which was a musical track I wrote directly as a Mr.Mister song, and Jerry wrote some great lyrics."

Jerry: "Somebody's Hero" and "The Last Standing Man" are my two favorites, because of lyrically they said exactly what I wanted to say. I didn't really pick and choose material that had super-big hooks, or super-big this and that. And for the first time I didn't work with a producer, I didn't have people telling me "no you can't do this, you can't do that". So basically I told the guys "let's just do and see what comes out". As long as it sounds Dakota-ish, we'll be ok, so it was a safe call from my part. It could have been bigger, harder, more up-tempo, but the next one is going to be all the above. The mixes on the record I feel could have been a little more, not so much dynamic, but I didn't get enough big harmonies. And as we work on a shoestring budget to do something you have to watch your p's and q's but yet not let that hinder the record that you're making. So I feel all in all, being painfully honest, I've tried to pick it apart and saying this is wrong and that is wrong. Everything that I came up with is all personal taste as an artist and producer. You will always think you could have done better, but when it came to the bottom line I still felt that this is a good record. And as an artist, you can really feel that you satisfy in a lot of ways yourself by saying I know why, how and what I need to improve. So that's the way I feel about it. Not to say that I don't care what everybody thinks, the public, all the magazines, they all have the right to have their opinion which you have to respect."

Rick: "Jerry and I have NEVER made a record that we didn't think we could have made some improvements. But, unfortunately most records labels demand a product take less than 8 years to finish. We'd mess with a mix forever, if you let us."

-One of my personal favorites on the album is "Struggles With The Heart". What about that song?
Jerry: "That was a song of Rick's that I loved. I loved what it had to say lyrically. You know a lot of people do take liberty to play with the things of the heart and it doesn't work. Sometimes you play with it to your benefit and feel that you're protecting yourself but you hurt someone else and you just can't play with things like that. You gotta just feel and let your heart take the direction and let the chips fall where they fall. Lyrically that can relate to a lot of people, you know "even the best can fail in the struggles with the heart", so don't think that you're the one that has got it all figured out. That's basically what it's about. And it was a song that I thought I would enjoy singing, and I did."

Rick: "When I wrote that, I'd just wrapped up a difficult, on-and-off 5-year relation-ship with a woman who had finally proven she didn't deserve me, and I needed to vent my feelings. It's about closure, and finally breaking free of your heart, convincing yourself that it's not worth the struggle, but it's an enormously difficult thing to do for most people. But later, when you've put enough time between you and the situation, it's a very bittersweet feeling, like, "I'm finally over this! But think of all the time and feelings I've wasted." The key line is at the close of the bridge, "Cause for too many years now I've asked myself "Why?"... but now I don't wanna know...". You let it go, you move on, you don't need to understand how you could allow this torture to continue for so long, and it's over now. But, the sad reality is, the culprit has stolen a part of your life, because it's too painful for you to remember."

Jerry: "The new album I feel is where compared to the old CBS and MCA, the songs are much better cause I couldn't have written songs like this when I was 20 years old. If we have a strong point in this record, aside from the sound and that is that lyrically I think the songs say something and maybe that's why they don't have that big hook that puts a rope around your neck immediately, it takes a couple of listens before you get it. Like with "The Last Standing Man" I remember how it felt to touch through expressions as far as writing Dakota songs like in the line "now we'll retake our place, in your hall of grace and sincerely I'd like to thank you all", I know that line may sound corny, but I really meant it! I had no other way of saying it than that, and in saying: "this time he'll take no prisoners", basically I didn't mean it to stop in the tracks, but to say: "I'm back!".
I guess it's more a lyrical album than anyone that we've ever made. And I think that's where I would wanna be at this stage of my career, writing songs that means something."

-I can agree that the lyrics on this album aren't as clichéd as you hear too often.
"And that's what I wanted to get away from Larry!"

-"The Last Standing Man" is not only a new record, it also marks the beginning of a new era for Dakota, being a completely full band effort (even if Rick has always been a susbtantial part of the band).
Jerry: "When I decided to do it, naturally as you should know, Kelly has been out of the loop for quite a while, and on every album before the "Mr Lucky" album Kelly sang lead and one song on "Mr Lucky", but he was kind of out of the loop by then. And to my liking, in assurance that I'm being accepted with this one very few things were said that because of his departure that the thing went down the tubes. Hard Roxx magazine had mentioned that it could have ripped the guts out of Dakota, but it didn't because Rick covered all the parts and Kelly was hardly even missed. And in a way that's a big compliment to Rick, unless you miss Kelly's lead vocals on things, which I'm sure some people have or will, but that's not the case anymore. I feel that if people can be open minded, Dakota is still Dakota."

-Actually Jerry, one of the things I wonder about is why have you chosen to sing all of the songs yourself, as Rick obviously has a good voice, too?
Jerry: "Yes, Rick can sing and maybe on the next album we'll mix it up a little bit. But I didn't really know what would be acceptable. Like if Rick would have sung on some of the Dakota songs, suppose I would have thrown him into the mix, maybe people would have said: "Where did he come from??". Everybody isn't as familiar with our background as you are, and I really didn't wanna put Rick in that position of a comparison. Rick has a very good voice and he did a great job covering any kind of vocal range as Kelly would have sung anyway."

Rick: "Jerry has one of the best voices in rock today, always has. We didn't think it was a wise move to just have me "replace" Kelly on this first effort without him, and take our chances that people would like my voice as much as Bill's. Our focus was to maintain the overall vocal sound, that thick, lush Dakota chorus sound, which only involved me being able to sing as high and clean as Kelly. Which I think I've done. On the next record, we've decided we'll do some of that back-and-forth 2-voice approach that we had on some past Dakota songs, because we think it adds a nice dimension for the listener. But I think this CD, with Jerry singing everything, works quite well. And besides, I don't let Jerry sing lead on my solo CD's anyway!"

-But he did sing on one track if I recall correctly. In any event, how does it feel for you to "finally" be regarded as an "official Dakota member"?
Rick: "Funny question - shows you what promo shots will do! Someone commented recently that I had "taken up the songwriting slack" of the departed Bill Kelly. When we released "Mr Lucky" in Europe, there were no songwriting credits, which contributed to this idea. But out of 10 songs, I wrote1 and co-wrote 7. Kelly co-wrote 2 of them. So, from that point on, as far as Jerry and I were concerned, I was an integral part of Dakota. Back when I joined the band in 1982, we were preparing to record "Runaway", and all of the material had already been written by Jerry and Kelly. It was only by Jerry's insistance that I even got a "with Rick Manwiller" on that one. Our producer, Danny Seraphine, thought I was a good player, but Jerry and Kelly were Dakota, case closed. Then the release of "Mr Lucky" kind of caught us by surprise, and the only promo pictures available were those taken of Jerry and Bill several years ago. I suggested adding a little stick-figure drawing of me in the corner, but no one went for it."

Jerry: "You guys over there, I know it's kind of an underground situation with all the magazines and the labels and I mean we're not talking like the big major labels and it's hard for these labels to sell even a few copies, and I know that everybody is doing it just for the love of the music, and it's because of you, Khalil and Barrie, and Magnus at MTM, and all the other people that I haven't spoke with yet or met, that are keeping this alive and I take my hat off for all of you because of this. If it wasn't for you, keeping this music alive through what you do, I wouldn't have got another chance! I can't say thank you all enough, cause this allows me a chance something that was a big part of my life and try to re-tool it. Plus, to have somebody play with me that was only a year old when Dakota was in their heyday now side by side with me, which is my son, is just a feeling that I cannot explain to you. And he's not playing with me because he's my son, cause I would never ever want to embarrass him or myself, but out of all the drummers that I've played with, this is the guy that I want to play side by side with, playing my music. He understands it. He feels it. He's a drummer that plays what he needs to play and does not overplay, does not showboat, he just lays it down and he comes up with some interesting things, and I think it's because of his jazz background also. He's a joy to work with! It's a thrill for me. But to get back to the lyrical content. The track "This Voice" might be of that kind that you've heard million songs like that. I call it 38 Special meets Boston meets Jackson Browne kind of mould. But what it had to say to me was the most important thing. It's about regrets and I have always hated regrets! In the end you're going to stand alone and be judged by not so much by your failures and successess, but by who you are. And those failures and successess make you who you are along the way and that's why you've got to take chances even if the consequences are the high price. But you have to take a stand! You see a lot of the things that I'm saying now I couldn't have said when I was 20 years old, not to say that I'm an old fart (laughs) but I've been in this business a long time."

Hope you'll be around for another decade!

Larry Schörling